Transcript: Former Ambassador Bridget Brink on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," May 18, 2025

The following is the transcript of an interview with Bridget Brink, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on May 18, 2025.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Last month, Ambassador Bridget Brink resigned from her post as America's top diplomat to Ukraine, and last week, she explained why. Though she had been serving as a career diplomat for three decades, Brink wrote in the Detroit Free Press she could, quote, 'no longer in good faith carry out the administration's policy,' accusing President Trump and his team of putting pressure on the victim, Ukraine, rather than on the aggressor, Russia. For more, we're joined now by Ambassador Brink. Ambassador, good to have you here.

AMBASSADOR BRIDGET BRINK: Hi, Margaret, thanks so much for having me on.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You served this country for so many decades. What happened that made you say, 'I can't take it'?

AMB. BRINK: Well, maybe let me give you a little context. What I saw in Ukraine was horrifying. For three years, Russia launched missiles and drones at men, women and children sleeping in their homes, tried to take down the energy grid for millions of Ukrainians, to take out the power, heat and light in the middle of winter, and committed war crimes and atrocities at a level we haven't seen since World War Two. I resigned from Ukraine and also from the Foreign Service, because the policy since the beginning of the administration was to put pressure on the victim Ukraine, rather than on the aggressor, Russia. I fully agree that the war needs to end, but I believe that peace at any price is not peace at all. It's appeasement and as we know from history, appeasement only leads to more war.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And to be clear, you are a career diplomat, so that means you serve regardless of who is the president of the United States and what party they come from. And in fact, when you tried to leave post in January, Secretary Rubio asked you to stay on in Kyiv, as I understand it, you were there for a number of months until April. What specifically with this policy is a problem for you? Because you did. You worked at post under the Trump administration. Was there a trigger that made you say we're getting it so wrong?

BRIDGET BRINK: Well, I would say it wasn't a hard, a hasty, rash decision. It was one that I took over the first three months of the administration. But the first sign was the Oval Office meeting in February, in February, President Trump and President Zelensky, where I saw that our approach is to put pressure on Ukraine and not pressure on Russia.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The President and this administration's policies, you have heard Secretary Rubio say is just to try to get the fighting to stop. Do you see that America has leverage here?

AMB. BRINK: Yes, of course we have leverage-

MARGARET BRENNAN: On Russia?

BRIDGET BRINK: Yes, of course we do. I mean, we're the leader in- of the free world. I think let's just be clear, Russia and Putin have invaded a sovereign, independent, democratic country in the heart of Europe, with the help of North Korea, Iran and China. This is fundamentally against U.S. interests Europe as our largest trading partner, is responsible for 16 million jobs on both continents, and having this war or any festering, unresolved war on the margins of Europe, is very bad for the United States. So what do we need to do as the United States? We need to put together with partners and allies, pressure on Russia to end the war. And there are many ways to do this. We can put additional sanctions in the energy sector, in the banking sector. Russia is not as strong as some people say, or some people think. The economy is hurting. They have 20 percent interest rates- 21 percent interest rates, 10 percent inflation. And so right now is the time to increase the pressure on Russia, to bring Putin to the table, not decrease it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we know that President Trump and President Putin have plans to speak on Monday, when you were still in Kyiv. President Zelenskyy called out the U.S. Embassy for what he called a disappointingly weak reaction from America following a missile attack that killed small children. He said, you must not be afraid to call things by their names, and the U.S. is afraid to even say the word Russian when speaking about the missile that murdered children. Do you feel American officials are being censored from saying things frankly and honestly?

AMB. BRINK: I mean, our job as diplomats is to reflect and represent the policy of the the President and the administration. That's our job. That's- that's what we do as professionals and having worked for five different presidents that requires reflecting that policy that's made constitutionally by the President. So to me, the real question is, how are we going to help to end this war in a way that's in the interest of the United States? And to do that, it can't be peace at any price. It has to be a peace that does things that advance our own interests, and those are really simple. It's how to keep Ukraine free, how to deter Russia, and how to send the right signal to China. And this is what we should be doing. And every step that we make in diplomacy, I think should try to help achieve this goal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And call things what they are.

AMB. BRINK: It's important for us, as a leader of the free world- again, to be clear and accurate, and also, I think it's an important moment in history. We've seen the devastation that happens when we appease aggressors, and we do not want to do that again. So my strong advice in terms of how to deal with Putin and Russia is not to give a single meeting or concession or legitimacy until Putin agrees to an unconditional ceasefire that's verifiable and moves forward toward a just and lasting peace. On that basis, I can see a conversation and diplomacy that can achieve our interests.

MARGARET BRENNAN: At the State Department, we have seen plans from Secretary Rubio to make some dramatic changes, and- and these are the professionals who would be advising the Secretary and the President in some way on these policies. He's going to close 132 offices, consolidate bureaus, he's going to cut about 15 percent of staff, he says. Eliminate offices. What do you think the impact will be on making the right decision when you have these changes? Is all of this helping our foreign policy or is this hurting the ability to shape it?

AMB. BRINK: I mean, again, having worked for five presidents, every new administration comes in with a set of goals, and our job as professional civil service was to execute and implement those goals to the best of our ability. I believe that cutting the State Department in ways that take away our diplomatic power does not help us achieve American interests, and there are key parts of the State Department that- that ensure our security broader than simply security from the defense side. There's cyber security, there's fight against disinformation, there's ensuring that there's free media and free press. That's all that we do as part of the State Department. So I think how we do it really matters. And my concern would be, as many people have said, If you don't fully fund the State Department, you need a bigger military budget. Because what we do- and we do it in small, sometimes quiet and unknown ways, is we help prevent wars. We help to open markets to U.S. businesses. We help American citizens when they're hurt or injured overseas. We play a very important role that's not necessarily the most public role, but I think this is a critical role to American foreign policy and national interest.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And do it often in war zones far away from your family, as you did for many years. Thank you very much, Ambassador Brink, for sharing your insights with us. We'll be back in a moment.